Dan Roy: Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions, Cardell. Let's jump right in. When working on Lord of the Rings Online (LOTRO), did you think at all about mobile (e.g. checking auctions via WAP or SMS)?
Cardell Kerr: Absolutely! The simple fact is that these games prosper off of continued investment from the player, and there are few mechanics that foster this better than allowing a person to ping an auction house, or allow for some form of online trade. Ultimately, we decided to focus on the heart of the game more so (questing and combat), knowing we could add more support for other options later.
Dan Roy: Like you said, mobile is great for keeping people connected to the game world and thinking about it, like pinging an auction house. However, it's also potentially powerful for another kind of interaction. As social as MMOs are, people generally have to be in their respective homes at their desktop computers to socialize in the game online. Mobile could allow people to socialize face-to-face and in the game online at the same time. Have you thought about any features like that? A one-on-one duel of some kind via mobile could be fun if players aren't near each other and even more fun if they are.
Cardell Kerr: We've certainly thought about it, though in all fairness the design of most current Big Budget MMPs [MMP is another term for MMO] doesn't support it all that well, since most of our gameplay drives play cycles of 40-90 minutes. I think LOTRO is more likely to branch into the web mini-game space before it fully embraces/utilizes mobile phones.
Dan Roy: Given that "these games prosper off of continued investment from the player," why have you targeted most of your gameplay toward cycles of 40-90 minutes? I know that's pretty standard with today's MMOs, but play sessions of that length can't easily occur continually throughout the day. If you wanted to attract players who wanted shorter but more frequent interaction, how would you design it? Would you put those players in the same world as the ones playing for 40-90 minutes at a time, or would you make these two separate games?
Cardell Kerr: Heh, a very good question. Mostly it's because the MMO of today's world is anything but casual/easy to get into, in addition to the fact that the target audience supports that model (currently). As I've gotten older, I've realized (sometimes painfully) that play times of that long are quite simple impossible to maintain for a person with a very busy work schedule... This is probably one of the reasons why more recent MMO's have been a great deal more solo friendly, though their timelines still skew into the "play for an hour, or don't bother" category. As for how I'd aim for the casual audience, I would make a separate game. The simple fact is that you want to make a game EASY for a casual audience to sample, play, and meet up with their friends. Most MMO's, while getting better, aren't quite at the IRC level yet, and IRC is pretty daunting to the casual player. Making something easy is ironically, quite hard. ;)
Dan Roy: Now that we've discussed mobile a bit, let's talk about the browser. I know LOTRO has some innovative features that allow players to access data or aspects of the game from a web browser. What was the discussion around how to use the web browser to extend the game? Is there more you would like to do with the browser?
Cardell Kerr: Ahh, well currently we're pushing on the concept of the Lorebook, a construct in LOTRO that allows you to view object/monster lists, quest lists, and NPC lists. In the future, we'd like to push this even further, by adding a Google map analog, and personal character stats. Ultimately, we wanted to ensure that we were providing all the key information we could as to how to play our game. As it stands, these games are large, intimidating amounts of information, and breaking them down into easy to parse chunks is a wise thing, from both a product standpoint, and from a consumer one.
Dan Roy: People probably only have the 3D game client installed on one computer at home, but they can access a web browser from many different places. Have you thought about designing any kinds of interactions with the game that could also or only happen through a web browser? Even checking auctions, as you've considered enabling on mobile, could be fun from a browser. Browser activities could allow people to play or check in on the game in some limited capacity from laptops, computer labs, or workplace PCs that don't have fast graphics cards.
Cardell Kerr: Heh, See above! Anyhow, I actually want to push the web game element of LOTRO as we move forward, especially since I can see it integrating with the elements of account advancement we already have. Sure, there are some very good standard elements (such as checking auctions, mail, character stats, online status), but I would be very excited to allow for mini games that allow Destiny point accrual, or other achievements that fuel your account in some way.
Dan Roy: Speaking of achievements, what do you think motivates players most to invest in improving a character in LOTRO, whether it be leveling, getting better gear, joining a better guild, or anything else? Do you think seeing oneself become more masterful is a major part of that? How much of a priority was it for the LOTRO team to make sure players could clearly see their own increasing mastery (both in their avatar's abilities and their own skills)? How much of a priority was it to make this increasing mastery more socially visible - to group members, guildmates, the whole server, and the whole game population across servers?
Cardell Kerr: Hrm, that's a difficult question. Well, when it comes to games, I think the reason why people invest time is initially recreational fun, and if that actually sticks, they normally begin to pursue mastery of the game (in the case of RPGs this is often to see a story unfold, or for tournament games, its to destroy the competition, and lastly, for toy type games, it's to complete whatever aspirations they have for the construct their assembling, whether it be a city, or a sim lifestyle). In terms of social cliques, it's all about showing people your stuff. MMPs tend to combine these two elements, making it impossible to separate "showing off stuff" from mastery of the game. If anything, I'd go so far as to say that "throwing the ring in the volcano doesn't mean as much, if you don't have proof." This is one of the main reasons we pursued so many avenues of advancement. Most games just have equipment, whereas we have equipment, traits, titles, emotes, and even skills. All of those are important, because they allow players to show off cool new things as a part of their own identity.
Dan Roy: That's great that you have so many different avenues for advancement. The people you come across in the game may be impressed with your advancements, however there are lots of people you might not come across. What if I wanted to build a balanced guild from the pool of everyone on the server so we have people who, combined, have advanced along all the different avenues? Have you thought about making those kinds of skills and advancements more visible to the whole server?
Cardell Kerr: This is one of the elements of the Lorebook we're already planning: the ability for character stats to be exported and reported on in a web browser, thus allowing them to publish their achievements. From there, we can rank characters based on those achievements, enabling everyone to see who hit level 50 first, or most recently, who completed all the deeds in the game, etc... In addition, we also allow people to opt out of the reporting, as we do respect privacy. ;)
Dan Roy: One last question. How do you see the MMO genre evolving and how would you like it to evolve?
Cardell Kerr: Well, currently, I think
we're seeing some patterns emerge that look achingly familiar among the
"hardcore" gamer. Back in the late 90's, they entered the RTS Market
with a humongous bang, and boosted development costs so high (in order
to compete), that people made some very expensive decisions that just
didn't pan out. Additionally, everyone wanted to get into the RTS
market because everyone wanted to be the next 'Warcraft". The MMO space
is in a very similar location right now, as Blizzard has a tendency to
set the pace for PC games. As a result, I think the near term MMO space
is going to get crowded with some very expensive (and possibly
unsuccessful) titles in the future. We all know that standing toe to
toe with Blizzard is... well, hard.
As for where I would like the MMO space to go? That's a
very interesting question. I'm actually of the opinion that finding a
solid element on the console is probably where it's at. At the end of
the road, the console already has mass appeal, and they have proven that
they can roll other entertainment functions into them (PS2 with a DVD
player, Xbox/PS3 with their Bluray/HDDvD elements). Once that's proven,
I think we will start to see a large amount of games coming into
resolution, each one in a viable, social environment. Anything we can
do to push the social space to allow for more than just "men in tights"
is a good thing, but I am especially interested in achieving that
without have to make boutique budgets, as the current space is either 30
million or 2.
Dan Roy: Thanks for the interview, Cardell.
